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tv   The Sunday Show With Jonathan Capehart  MSNBC  February 25, 2024 9:00pm-10:00pm PST

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and there's no catch. it's fre. we make money from ads, but they don't follow you aroud join the millions of people taking back their privacy by downloading duckduckgo on all your devices today. whoa, how did you defeat them? join the millions of people with a little kung fu strength and by connecting my devices to the most powerful force of all. skadoosh. hah, huh? cool right? amazing. harness the power of xfinity internet and stay connected to the things you love. ah, they'll be like this for hours. hello dad, hello dad, hello da. uh-oh. good bunnies. ahh! battleground, donald trump and nikki haley face-off, next in the key state of michigan.
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after trump trounced haley in her home state of south carolina. but the latest primary results holds some warning signs for the republican presidential front runner. asa hutchinson, the former presidential candidate, is here to discuss the election, in the future of the gop. which he says trump is turning into a pro putin party of grievance. the toll of war. ukraine's president says 31,000 ukrainian troops have been killed since the russian invasion began two years ago yesterday. as republicans continue to block much needed military aid, we will take a closer look at potential backup plans to get ukraine the help it desperately needs. and, the maga agenda, from abortion to immigration. we will dive into how donald trump and his allies are planning extreme policies, for a possible second trump term. i am jonathan capehart, this is the sunday show. >> with the south carolina
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republican presidential primary in the rearview mirror, all of the attention has turned to michigan. on tuesday, voters in that battleground state will pass -- cast ballots in both democratic and republican primary contests, followed by super tuesday on march 5th. but donald trump's 20 point victory over nikki haley in her home state, underscores an undeniable political reality. trump is all but certain to be the republican nominee. a reality that haley is choosing to avoid, for now. last night after her defeat, she vowed, again, to stay in the race. >> i said earlier this week, that no matter what happens in south carolina, i would continue to run for president. [applause] i'm a woman of my word.
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[applause] >> haley's campaign says she's raised 1 million dollars from small donors, just in the last 24 hours. but, nbc news has confirmed that political report that haley has also lost the financial support of a conservative super pac, that is backed by the powerful coke network. saying they have to take stock of their spending priorities, after her loss in south carolina. for trump's part, he opted to ignore haley in his victory speech, and kept his focus on president biden and the general election. according to new reporting from nbc news, a growing chorus of top advisers are urging the disgraced former president to stop fixating on personal grievance, and speak out more on policy. but let's not forget, this is the same man who, just this week, aired out this long list of grievances. >> i got indicted for nothing, for something that is nothing.
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they were doing it because it's election interference. i stand before you today, not only as your past, and hopefully future president, but as a proud political dissident. i am a dissident. november 5th will be our new liberation day. but for the liars and cheaters, and fraudsters and sensors and impostors, who have commandeered our government, it will be their judgment day. they are judgment day. >> joining me now, former governor of arkansas, and former republican presidential candidate asa hutchinson. governor hutchinson, welcome back to the sunday show. let me get your reaction to this news, that nbc's aly vitaly has confirmed, that conservative super pac attached to the koch brothers is, what was the term, reassessing their spending priorities. how damaging is that for
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governor haley? >> it hurts, because they gave the coke network, through their political action group, the grassroots operation. they were knocking on the doors in iowa, and obviously in south carolina. so withdrawing that hurts some of the grassroots efforts. she is still going to have the funding that is needed to proceed on, through super tuesday. you could see the money she is raising from the small dollar contributions, which makes all of the difference. and it really speaks volumes. but, the donors, what you've got to watch, the large donors that joined in her campaign, how long will they stick with her? >> so, donald trump won south carolina, with 58. 9% of the vote. nikki haley got 39. 5% of the vote. when i saw that number, even though it was her home state,
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that is significant, i think. considering that donald trump basically is an incumbent. am i wrong in thinking that nikki haley's 39. 5% spells trouble for donald trump, if indeed he does become the general election republican presidential nominee? >> it does. and that is the biggest challenge for donald trump, is that you've got 40% of the republican base, that says we would like to have an alternative. if 40% of the democratic base had voted against joe biden, he would have been a national story, and say he's in trouble. well, donald trump, he has a 20% victory there, and he ought to be congratulated for that. but it also spells that he's got a lot more work to do to try to shore up the republican base, and the independents. in south carolina, nikki haley beat donald trump with
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independent voters. that is his biggest challenge in november. >> and independent voters made a 21% of the south carolina elected republican primary, south carolina electorate last night. you have been critical of trump, as i said in the intro of the show, saying that he will turn the gop into a pro putin party. but hasn't that already happened, given what trump has said about nato, and members of congress who are parroting his line? >> well, he is trying to do that. i mean clearly, he won't even criticize putin for the death of the dissidents of -- and so, this is a real tragedy. and it is a warning sign to the republican party, that you need to be wary of this. let me emphasize that i have endorsed nikki haley. i support her, and i continue to do so. because we have to have an alternative to donald trump, if we are going to win in november. >> on that, point saturday night live's cold open, they had republicans who shamelessly
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surrendered to trump, they were called out. watch. this >> with the man doesn't care about this -- one iota. sometimes i think he is downright dangerous. >> and you just endorsed him. >> yeah, big time, big time. >> trump gave you the name little marco, right? >> yes. i've never been able to shake it. people still yell at me and airports. he kind of made my life hell >> and you endorsed him right? >> absolutely. >> so governor, you just mentioned, i want to show that. because just a second, ago you mentioned how you've endorsed governor haley, nikki haley. you are still behind her. but if she drops out of the race, will you endorsed donald trump? >> we'll, i am not going to support a convicted felon. and of course, that remains to be seen. so let's see who comes out of the republican convention. it's not done until it's done. i think, what donald trump is
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trying to do is to wrap this nomination of very quickly, because he knows the storm clouds are gathering over him. with the multiple court cases, with the financial judgments against him. and with 40% of the republican base saying we want an alternative. and so, let's wait and see who comes out of the convention. but i'm not going to support a convicted felon. >> and, convicted felon. do you have to be convicted? let's say he's not convicted, is he someone you could still support, given the pro putin event? given him likening himself to navalny, giving all of the things that he has said? >> well, there has not been anyone more critical of donald trump and his leadership than me. i did that for a year, it didn't get me far in the presidential race, but it was a matter of conviction and strong belief about where the
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republican party needs to go. so, let's just not get ahead of the game. i am going to be fighting hard for nikki haley, we've still got a convention ahead, we will see where it goes. >> and, i understand that. but you know, there are folks who are watching who, i'm sure, are screaming at the television, why can't he just say that under no circumstances would he support donald trump? great that you're supporting nikki haley, and hey, you could go in and write her name in in november, if donald trump is the nominee. why not just say, he does not represent the republican party that i've grown up in, and that i am a part of. and just leave it at that? >> well, the answer is, i have always supported the republican nominee, it is sort of a big deal to move a different direction. and i still have hope for the republican party. it's challenged, because i see the direction and the challenge that nikki haley has in front of her. but, we are going to work hard to see if we can change that
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between now in the convention. >> so, if -- >> stateowned. >> i was going to say, you have an open individual to come back to the saturday, or the sunday show, depending on what happens as we get closer to the republican convention in milwaukee, in july. asa hutchison, former governor of arkansas, former republican presidential candidate, thank you very much for coming back to the sunday show. >> good to be with you, thanks jonathan. >> and still to come on the sunday show, trump two point oh. inside trump world's extreme agenda, in front of its ongoing efforts to ban abortion nationwide, two disturbing plans for mass deportations and migration detention camps. if donald trump is elected to a second term. but first, new details on the war in ukraine, and potential backup plans to get critical u. s. military aid to ukraine, since congressional republicans refused to act. and that's next. that's next.
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and creepy ads that follow youa from google and other companie. and there's no catch. it's fre. we make money from ads, but they don't follow you aroud join the millions of people taking back their privacy by downloading duckduckgo on all your devices today. this weekend marks two years since russia launched its unprovoked, full scale invasion of ukraine. today in an interview with nbc news chief foreign correspondent richard engel,
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ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy issued this warning, about the aid he needs from the united states. >> what happens to your country, if this american aid doesn't arrive? >> well, we will lose a lot of people, we will lose territory. the united states focused on, also on interior questions, political questions, it's a tough period, election period. and that's why it's a little bit slow. but the answer is, if to give us strong advantage. we will lose less people, and we will win. >> it's a terrifying scenario, since republicans in congress continue to block critical aid to ukraine. so far, president zelenskyy
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says ukraine has lost 31,000 soldiers. and the delay in u.s. aid has already led to major battlefield setbacks, including ukraine's recent decision to withdraw from the southern city of avdiivka. a loss that the biden administration has directly attributed to, quote, congressional inaction. in the meantime, alternative solutions are being considered. one strategy includes sending the estimated 300 billion dollars in frozen russian assets being held in the west. joining me now, admiral james -- , msnbc chief international security and diplomacy analyst, former supreme -- commander at nato. and author of to risk it all, nine conflicts and the crucible of decision. admiral -- as always, thank you for coming to the sunday show. or -- the senate majority
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leader chuck schumer, just within the last hour, sent a letter to his colleagues about the looming government shutdown, focusing on -- the aid to ukraine. he even called on speaker johnson to go to ukraine, and see the horrors of war himself. how urgent is it for lawmakers to take action on this issue right now? >> it is absolutely critical. and the irony of the situation, jonathan, is that there are strong majorities in both houses of our congress, senate and the house of representatives, who support this aid. it is being held hostage on the republican side, in the house of representatives, because a small number of republicans don't believe in this. and it's a position that just doesn't make sense. here is an opportunity to spend 60 billion dollars, which is a fraction of the overall u.s.
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defense budget, which is almost 900 billion dollars. spend 60 billion, don't put a single soldier in harm's way. europeans have already contributed 60 million to this. effectively we would be matching them. and all of it would go toward breaking the -- of vladimir putin's army. that is the best return on investment for u.s. defense spending i could think of. >> there have been alternative solutions floated, about ways to help ukraine. one is to hand over the russian, the russian assets that are frozen. what other options are there, if congress does not find the money? >> first, i do want to just draw a line under that 300 billion. it's actually a bit higher than that. it could certainly go toward the cause of ukraine, and deservedly so. they were invaded without a single moral or ethical or legal reason. so that money, by rights, in my view, are supporting ukraine in this very legitimate fight.
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secondly, the europeans, they do have additional capacity, if this gets into a situation where the u.s. continues to be incapable of doing the right thing, our european allies. i am absolutely convinced, will step up even further. and then third and finally, the ukrainians themselves have developed a fairly capable, localized arms production system. notably for drones, other high tech aspects. they can hold on for some number of months, jonathan. boy, let's not put them in that situation. >> admiral, let me get you on a couple of other alternatives that i have seen reported. one was in the new york times, buried in a story last weekend, about the possibility of -- this was being discussed in munich, the possibility of germany buying american arms, and other european countries,
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and then sending them to ukraine. is that a viable option? >> i think it is. and oh by the way, for the congress, every dollar that you allocate to go towards ukraine, almost all of it is spent here in the united states of america. it's spent buying u.s. weapons systems. so the proposal you are floating, jonathan, is a smart one. which is, get the europeans to do that part of it. and that, i think, is quite palatable. i'll give you another idea, and it's taking a page from history. it's when fdr faced a similar situation, before world war ii really got started. he used the land lease program, provided former used, if you will, military systems. the president could do that on his authority, and transfer those to ukraine. so yes, there are some creative ways around this. but, can we just please do the right thing, and get the money in the hands of the ukrainians?
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>> and in, the minute we have left, one thing that i am wondering. at the beginning of russia's invasion of ukraine, individual americans volunteered, they went over and thought fought in ukraine. can they do anything as private citizens, to help get military aid there? could a private citizen by a bunch of bullets, and send them over to ukraine? >> i think buying the bullets would be hard. but, why not a gofundme page, led by someone like our colleague and msnbc senior chief nance, >> michael nance. >> who has been in the fight over there, wonderful person. and, why not do that. donald trump has raised over millions of dollars on a gofundme page. i would say this is a very just
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cause. >> that actually, a gofundme page, is an excellent idea. someone, get on that. and admiral -- thank you very much, as always for coming to the sunday show. and up next, inside trump world's well funded assault on reproductive rights, and plans for militarized mass deportations, and detention camps for migrants, if he wins the white house in november. we're going to get -- -- and, of reproductive freedom for all, join me to discuss what's at stake. keep it right here. keep it right here. irst notice, which keg and going, i should have gone to the doctor. instead, i tried to let it pass. if you experience irregular heartbeat, heart racing, chest pain, shortness of breath, fatigue, or light-headedness, you should talk to your doctor. afib increases the risk of stroke about 5 times. when it comes to your health, this is no time to wait.
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but according to the times, cpi's real goal is filling the hill, and white house, with trump loyalists. that's on top of the efforts by the so-called project 2025, an operation led by the ultra conservative heritage foundation, that aims to staff the next republican administration. once installed, those trump allies are prepared to ban abortion nationwide through the power of federal agencies. the times, the times reports that the attacks on reproductive rights would come from a, quote, a variety of angles, and could be stopped only by courts that the first trump administration had already stacked with conservative judges. the washington post reports that trump's inner circle is also urging him to round up
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millions of undocumented immigrants, and create detention camps at the border. if trump has even boasted about this potential mass deportation scheme, saying that he will carry out more removals than any other president in u.s. history. and for the first time, trump could actually have the yes men behind him to make that happen. joining me now, -- president and ceo of voter latino, in an msnbc political analyst. and -- , president of reproductive freedom for all, formerly -- pro-choice america, and birthday lady. with [laughter] >> belated happy birthday. >> i'm gonna start with you, the front page of the washington post on thursday had a jarring headline. trump team sees camps for deported, mass round ups planned in a militarized border operation in second term.
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what they have planned harkens back to what they did in, in the eisenhower in ministration. this is morally reprehensible. but, would it be illegal, or even logistically possible, feasible, to do what trump and his folks are planning to do? >> i think it's a moment for us to really have a frank conversation with the american people, about what trump intends to do with america. this idea that he wants to go around and round up undocumented folks, is really a guise of saying america is going to target people who are not white. because technically speaking, you do not know who is undocumented or documented in this country. we already know what happened under the muslim ban, we already know what he did with family separation. and i can tell you, as the head
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of -- , when he was doing the child internment camps, i also know for good fact that the individuals that they were targeting in arizona, nevada, and texas were simply brown. and it was american latino voters who got so angry, that they organized, they mobilized, and they voted. and i think right now, it's a moment for us to have, and hear from the president of the united states, to have a rebuttal of what this vision of america is under trump. he needs to remind the american people that our values, as americans, mean that we are multi cultural. and this idea that we are going -- to whether it's because we are going to suppress the vote, whether we are going to suppress women's agencies over their bodies, or whether we are going to target fellow americans under the guise of immigration reform. that is not only nonsense, but
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the only people who end up winning by tearing americans apart are foreign actors. and we have to be very clear that this is going to be not just a moral stain on our current legacy, but our future legacy as. well >> and what you just said, what does that mean for what has been reported, that the white house is considering in terms of shutting down the border? as an executive order. so i think that, this is where i have such a hard challenge right, not with the way people keep talking about what is happening at the border. by the time someone gets to the border, that is not american -- that is not american immigration policy. that is a broken system that
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needs to be addressed. and the reason that we have a flood of folks at the border right now, is 45 years of american neglect in latin america. we have to separate what is happening in the western hemisphere from the real issues. i don't know if you saw today in the new york times, there was a whole article about how young latino voters in arizona are really timid about participating in the mid term, the presidential elections. because biden hasn't spoken to those children, of undocumented parents, who are saying wait a second, the only reason i got into this political game, was because my parents, who had spent good time and spent billions of dollars paying in taxes, are insecure. and they are trying to prevent
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another -- let alone another trump in the administration. >> so many, the other, sort of assault that's happening is the assault on reproductive rights. and trump has been playing both sides on abortion. bragging that he was the one who put the judges in place that got rid of roe, but then when the alabama state supreme court said, handed down its decision on ivf, he's like whoa whoa, i support ivf. and let's just, to be clear for those of you who don't know. the alabama state supreme court said that the embryos are children. this is terrifying on myriad levels. but what are the broader implications of this alabama ruling? have we seen ivf clinics in other states say, you know what, maybe we should just hold
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off? >> we are definitely seeing the entire medical community, the reproductive assistance community, checking all of their regulations, and all of their advice to patients. we are definitely seeing a core demographic, the suburban moms, freaking out. i mean anecdotally, the organizations that we have worked with, including our own, that are talking to these women in the suburbs and key states, are hearing a ton of inquiry about what the status of ivf is in my state. but, i want to take a step back and say, it wasn't just the alabama supreme court. nikki haley said embryos are babies. multiple times, even when she tried to walk it back. and donald trump, let's be clear, maybe he does, maybe he doesn't know or have an opinion. but it goes to the original set up for this piece, the project 2025 folks, and the cpi folks,
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they sure do know. and they are proponents and advocates, and leaders in the personhood movement. which is the life at conception movement. 100 plus members of the house of representatives signed on to life at conception legislation. so you've got them all out there, backtracking, and playing both sides. but they have been very clearly on the side of extremism, and imposing their theology on the american people, for a long time. the difference now is, they are ready for a trump administration. they were caught a little off- guard. but look how much damage they did even while being caught off guard. >> and you mentioned cpi. and we all now know who they
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are, after they were in the shadows. because on the front page of the new york times last sunday, is when they featured this story, in the report about how these folks are going to use a law from 1875, the comstock act, as a way to prevent mifepristone from being shipped by mail. talk about how, if that were to succeed, that would be a national abortion ban. without congress having to do anything. >> it's very similar to the tactic that they are using in the -- that oral arguments in the supreme court in a couple of weeks. it's, let's attack medication abortion access. let's attack abortion access in the states where it's legal, so that we can create so many barriers to care, that it doesn't matter if it's legal or not. and actually, this is important. and you know this from your time on planned parenthood. they have been doing this for decades before dogs.
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this is how they made abortion access so difficult for folks, from my home state of texas, even with roe as the law of the land. they had these targeted restrictions against abortion providers. so this is another version of that, and they never intended to stop and say abortion is now in the states purview. that was never the intent. that was just step one in a very long plan, that starts with abortion care, and it ends with birth control. the comstock act will be weaponized, not just for medication abortion, but even to have access to pills in the mail. they are going to come after the fda. you know, i was reading through the cpi website, just for fun. >> [laughter] it's fun. >> they have a whole section on attacking agencies for being too woke. and they've a whole brief on the fda and its wokeness. so, there is a lot. after the break, new details in the tragic death of nonbinary oklahoma teen -- after they said they were attacked by classmates. state representative murray turner joins me next to discuss how oklahoma democrats are working to keep lgbtq+ kids safe. keep lgbtq+ k ids safe. keep being you... anyour healthcare provider about the number one prescribed h-i-v treatment, biktarvy. biktarvy is a complete, one-pill, once-a-day treatment used for h-i-v in many people whether you're 18 or 80. with one small pill, biktarvy fights h-i-v to help you get to undetectable—and stay there whether you're just starting or replacing your current treatment. research shows that taking h-i-v treatment as prescribed and getting to and staying undetectable prevents transmitting h-i-v through sex. serious side effects can occur, including kidney problems and kidney failure.
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their high school in -- , oklahoma. nex was taken to the hospital, and died a day after the attack. police say the cause of death is still pending, but that preliminary autopsy results show nex did not die as a result of trauma. according to the aclu, oklahoma has more anti lgbtq legislation in the works than any other state. more than 50 bills targeting the lgbtq community have been introduced this year. oklahoma state representative mauree turner called out these hateful policies during a tribute to next benedict on the house floor. turner is the first nonbinary person elected to state office in the united states. >> i don't think it's lost on me that we lost a student, far too soon in oklahoma. and that that happens often because of the rhetoric and some of the things that we do hear. and so i hope that you will keep them in your thoughts in
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your prayers. joining me now, oklahoma state representative mauree turner. they are a board member of -- listen, the nonprofit supporting lgbtq students. representative turner, thank you very much for being here. my condolences to you, and the lgbtq+ community in oklahoma. first, what do you make of the police being so quick to release information that the preliminary autopsy results found nex didn't die as a result of trauma? because, personally speaking as an african american, and as a gay man, i'm having a hard time with that. >> yeah, i think realistically, right, it's all still jarring for a lot of folks. what i will say is that nex died -- on february the 8th. and, we are just finding out this information, i believe this week, earlier this week. and a lot of folks in and around the state didn't even hear about nex's death until this past weekend. it's been something that has been, i think quiet kept, and i'm very thankful for this platform to be able to talk
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more about nex's death, but also to continue to amplify, specifically what happens when policy like this, but also what happens when we have a national push for things like this. because if we weren't talking about this on a national level, then who knows what the police might have --, or what conversations could have possibly not taken place. so. >> you know, oklahoma's -- wine walters, who i'm sure you know well, has said that trans and non-binary students are, quote, dangerous to their peers. how else has his leadership put teens like nex at risk. >> i think in so, so many ways, i think about the direct attacks on specific schools. when we are talk about our intersections, and what that looks like to be black inquire and trans and muslim and whatever else in oklahoma right now. and be a student in public education. it has been the tack not only on our history, our way of
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life, but clearly it -- on our future. and because of harmful rhetoric, right. because you want, what is it, tiktok views maybe, or whatever you're next political office is. and why would you want to strive for a political office that has you put our children in the crosshairs of hate and bigotry. and so very harmful, in a number of ways. and i don't think we have enough time to talk about it. [laughter] >> representative turner, an lgbtq youth crisis hotline said calls from oklahoma rose 300% after nex's death. what can we support -- to support young people in your state right now? >> so many things, right. i think about how our state, one of our states -- lgbtq advocates group is -- oklahoma, and it is stacked with about four people, who are
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continuously running across the state, helping to get -- started, equip them with the information that they need, host virtual online spaces for folks who cannot physically show up, right. tracking all of the harmful legislation that is coming forth, creating tool kits for us to combat it continuously. and this is an organization that has also run on a shoestring budget. and so making sure that you are paying attention to oklahoma. and when you have the resources to be able to help out to. because a lot of times, they are in this place where we are to midwest for folks who are giving to the south, and we are to south for folks who are giving to the midwest. and so oklahoma is often left in this place where we only get to report out the very harmful things that happened, because more people weren't all hands on deck. and so, i think about places
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like black freedom oklahoma, i think about our community mutual aid funds, right. the trans, trans lifelines here on the ground. and, so many things that i think about. oftentimes, people will stop and say, maybe i shouldn't give my $20 to this mutual aid fund, for someone who needs night -- but i'll give to this political candidate. and right now, we need the dollars in the communities. political candidates, if they are not raising money to help their trans communities, if they aren't speaking out about what's happening right now, that maybe it's not time to give money there, but it is time to give money to the communities. >> and with that, i'm sorry, but we are going to have to leave it there. but i want to thank you so
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much. oklahoma state representative mauree turner, for coming back to the sunday show, and for speaking out about the death of nex benedict. >> thank you. >> coming up, how in iraq war veteran is navigating the deep divisions in america right now. journalist david finkle joins me live in studio, to discuss his new book that explores what it means to hold on to our values, and sense of hope for this country's future. this country's future. rci! we h! we bring you the real, in-depth school info. (marci) what were you thinking? (luke) i don't know. i. don't know. (vo) ding dong! homes.com
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♪ i wanna hold you forever ♪
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hey little bear bear. ♪ ♪ ♪ i'm gonna love you forever ♪ ♪ ♪ c'mon, bear. ♪ ♪ ♪ you don't...you don't have to worry... ♪ ♪ be by your side... i'll be there... ♪ ♪ with my arms wrapped around... ♪
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in this election year, anxiety is high, political polarization is not just dividing us, it feels like it is tearing our country apart. many americans find themselves on the warpath over politics, basic freedoms, life choices, even identities. when u.s. military veteran named brent cummings likens it to the combat he once faced while serving in iraq. pulitzer prize-winning reporter david finkle profiled cummings in his new book, and writes quote, out of one war and into another. that was how life in the united states was increasingly feeling to brent. joining me now, david finkle, national enterprise editor at the washington post, and author of an american dreamer, life in a divided country. david, welcome to the sunday show. how did you find brent cummings? what inspired you to focus on his story? >> it goes back to 2007. brent was in a combat unit in iraq, that is when i first met
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him. i was writing another book then about the experience of the war, and i was with brent and his unit for about a year. and again and again, i would see brent trying to figure out not just the tactics of war, but the morality of war. and if you fast forward ten years, and the country was heading into what felt like a moral reckoning, and i want to write about that. i figured brent is the way to go. largely because of what he did cite me one day. he did feel like he survived one war, only to be heading into another one. >> so what does brent believe is the source of our divisions? is it donald trump? or did the problems go deeper than trump? >> to him, deeper, conflict, he is finding out, seems to be all around him, in the most prosaic and ben always. for instance, there was a day his wife laura went to the grocery stores. and they were giving out
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cheese, those little cubes of cheese. and she grabbed, one there were only two people in the store, and the woman handing them out gave one to laura, and laura just said what kind of cheese is this? and the woman said its white american, just like you and me. and the other woman happen to be an asian woman. and laura's thinking, what is this coarseness that's going on here? what's happening? and there was -- because she had been asked to put a mask on during covid. in so many ways, brent was finding out the conflict in this country was everywhere, and it was consuming people, and it began to consume him as well. and what the book is really the journey of somebody trying to figure out how not to surrender to that, but to keep the humanity. >> and so without giving away the book, how does he do that? >> well, it's a work in progress, i think for any of
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us. and there is, i'd like to think an urgency to his story. because here we go again, into another election season, where all of this is just going to feel so heightened, almost like a fire alarm going off all of the time. and to go along with front, and to see how he was dealing with all of these small and large conflicts. whether it was about his relationship with his next door neighbor, who is a hard-core, hard-core trump believer, or in other ways, just to see how brent, again just like he did in the war, tried not to lose his humanity, tried to approach things morally. it was a fascinating case study. >> is he hopeful that this war, that he is fighting at home. is he hopeful that it is a war he, slash us will win? >> he is a hopeful guy. he's not giving into this. it's, you should understand this is not a political battle,
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by the way. it's not in favor of trump, or against trump, or biden or anybody like that. it's the experience of somebody who is very much like us, trying to figure out what to do. and i think it does help that he is, he remains a hopeful guy. not to the point where he is naive. he has learned a lot over the course of this book. but yeah, i think he is hopeful. >> i think that's a very, very important point. because we here in washington, we view lots of things just through the political lens. that either its, trump or it's biden, it's through that lens.
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and there are millions of fellow americans who are just, they just want there to be kindness and gratitude, and all of those things that make, make this country a fabulous country. david finkle, thank you very much for coming to the sunday show. we've got, we've got some, we have some breaking news. the president, and we have some breaking news about the funding standoff in congress. president biden will meet with speaker mike johnson and the other three top congressional leaders on tuesday, to discuss the urgency of passing the national security supplemental bill, and keeping the government open. the shutdown deadline is friday, march 1st. that will, and yet march 1st. in the next one is march 8th. but let's just get through march 1st. that will do it for me today. thank you for watching, i will be back next saturday and sunday at six pm eastern, right here on msnbc. remember to follow us on x, instagram, tiktok and threads, using the handle at weekend capehart. you can also catch clips of the show on youtube. don't go anywhere, ayman mohyeldin is. next ♪ ♪
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i think he's having a midlife crisis talk to your doctor i'm not. you got us t-mobile home internet lite. after a week of streaming they knocked us down... ...to dial up speeds. like from the 90s. great times. all i can do say is that my life is pre-- i like watching the puddles gather rain. -hey, your mom and i procreated to that song. oh, ew! i think you've said enough. why don't we just switch to xfinity like everyone else? then you would know what year it was. i know what year it is. do you? [music playing] hello, i'm andrea canning, for these last two years.re g initially, it was panic, and then it turned into torment.

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